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Today, we’ll be talking about changes to the post-pen effects for APHE shells used by ground vehicles that we plan to introduce into the game. We’re ready to show you what we have planned here, and at the end of this news post you can participate in voting for or against — whether there’ll be changes or not all depends on your vote. Let’s take a look!
Preserving fragments in the head part of the shell
First off, we’d like to tell you about a change that we consider necessary and will be implemented into the game without any vote. This change relates to maintaining the integrity of an APHE shell’s head after armor penetration. When an APHE shell explodes, its warhead is not subject to significant fragmentation and can cause substantially greater damage than the scattering fragments of the case and base.
The fragment of the shell’s warhead is significant in mass, can penetrate armor of considerable thickness, and at the same time also form secondary fragments when penetrating armor. This change will allow the warhead to better hit enemy crew members located behind internal partitions, such as the engine compartment bulkhead, as well as other modules along the shell’s flight trajectory that cannot be penetrated by small fragments generated from the shell exploding.
Increasing secondary fragments and high explosive damage
Due to a number of technical reasons, secondary fragments from APHE shells differ and are worse compared to fragments from regular, solid AP shells. When reworking fragmentation fields, we’ll enhance the secondary fragments of APHE shells to the level of solid AP shells.
The high-explosive damage from APHE shells will remain — it causes relatively little damage, affects the crew and modules inside the tank and has a damage zone in the form of a sphere around the detonation point of the shell. The diameter of the damage sphere of high-explosive damage is noticeably smaller than the scattering zone of secondary fragments.
Implementing fragment areas
Here are the changes that we’d like you to vote on, whether they’re introduced or not will be determined by community vote: scattering sectors of fragments from APHE shells.
When a shell explodes, three main fragmentation areas are formed, shown in the image below:
- The remainder of the shell’s head and its fragments.
- Fragments from the base of the shell.
- Fragments from all sides of the shell (the case).
When a shell explodes inside of a tank or armored vehicle, the shell’s head acts as a small solid AP round and may penetrate more internal modules. Alongside this, smaller fragments from the shell casing form a fragmentation cone and hit the crew and modules around the explosion point. We plan to implement both of these to the game.
*Translation (Pic.113): Scattering of the APHE shell fragments on impact
At the moment, we use a simplified fragmentation pattern for APHE shells in the game without segmentation into different areas. If we were to implement the proposed physically reliable sector fragmentation patterns for APHE shells, the post-pen effect of APHE shells will be more realistic. However, when hitting protruding modules, such as the commander’s cupola, the probability of crew damage would be reduced.
Reworking the post-pen effects of APHE shells can change the tactics of the game, making protruding weakened areas less vulnerable. However at the same time, post-pen effects after penetrating the hull of a vehicle due to the preservation of the shell’s head after the shell explodes will be increased.
We’d like to hear your opinion on this — share it in the comment field and vote Yes or No for the changes to post-pen effects in the poll!
In-game examples of the described changes
Here’s some screenshots of how damage to ground vehicles will be altered with the changes implemented.
Post-pen effect when penetrating the center of a tank without preserving the head of the shell (before) vs while preserving the head of the shell (after):
Before
After
Post-pen effect when the commander’s cupola is hit by a spherical spread of fragments from a shell explosion (before) vs hit with a physically reliable sectoral scattering of fragments from the shell explosion (after):
Before
After
We’re planning to give players the opportunity to test these changes in a special game event, as well as the “Protection Analysis” menu, before applying these changes to all APHE shells in the game. However, preparing this testing will require some significant time from the development team, so today we want to collect your opinions on whether you’re interested in switching to a more detailed damage model for APHE shells. So, shall we test it?
If you’re interested in testing, we’ll start preparing it and will host another voting on this change based on its results.
Comments (262)
Comments will be premoderatedFragmentation is not only sectoral, it is also highly directional. The direction of fragmentation is extremely biased in the direction of trajectory - all shell fragmentation will display a substantial forwards direction, with a very small proportion actually backscattered. This is a drawback of the proposed change - it still backscatters heavily, continuing to excessively overplay the power of APHE. Base fragments have to overcome 400-1000m/s forward velocity in the blast to truly backscatter.
Instead of fixing BR's for tanks Gaijin time and time again nerfing shell damage so that people would live longer, while pretending that these new damage models are "realistic" when, in reality, we only coming closer to an Health Points type model.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
how does it make sense that the cupola shot is MORE lethal with the reduced fragmentation?
duсky, I made the same mistake since the graphic was a bit confusing, but the shot where only the commander is dead is the one after, the slider is kinda inverse to whats said, since when you slide to the full right you get the full image of the before on the left and then vice versa
duсky, It's the other way around, the more lethal one is right now.
If this changes are realistic then YES! Tho I will miss the fact that cupola shots are no longer viable.
I just know that most of the people against this change is a german or russian main lmao, or any other nation that benefits mostly from APHE with absurd HE fillers
I can see why some might want this from a "make the game more realistic" point but from a game play balanced point I think this would be a super bad idea removing a lot of weak points from tanks and making being up ranked in games an even bigger paint than it can sometimes be.
Consider also turning on overpressure damage for all APHE shells, it's silly that aircraft cannons can overpressure with less filler than APHE shells.
My problem with this is that it is selectively adding realistic elements. If you want to make the fragmentation realistic you have to add other realistic elements like concussion or wounding to balance them out. The thing that balances out the higher "unrealistic" damage is the repair and crew replacement, shells do more damage than they would in reality but you can repair that damage completely unrealistically. You cant just nerf shells like this and do nothing to balance out the damage
Results of the new model still seem far from optimal . For instance in the center mass penetration scenario radio operator gets away with minor damage ( yellow ) which seems to be wrong. Both driver and radio operator are on the same axis and situated within the zone ( left and right of the round ) with the highest and most energetic fragment concentration ( 70% ). I know there is electronic equipment between the two but it is very doubtfull that it will stop most energetic fragments.
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