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Commanders!
Today we want to talk to you about upcoming changes to the German Ground Forces tree with update 1.91. We have previously mentioned our plans to hide vehicles that were never fully materialized in real life as a complete vehicle, prototype or test vehicle. 3 such vehicles are the Panther II, Flakpanzer 341 and Tiger II (10.5 cm Kw.K), all of which have historical elements, but were never fully built. The Maus heavy tank also causes serious issues due to the impossibility of balancing it properly in the current gameplay situation. Since they were first introduced during the early years of War Thunder, the German tree has evolved massively and in order to optimize research progress and improve the trees overall balance, we plan to hide these vehicles from standard research.
All these vehicles will stay on the main tree for all players that have purchased them already. You will also be able to complete research if you started the research before 1.91.
Planned changes in update 1.91
![](https://static.warthunder.com/upload/image/!%202019%20NEWS/08%20August/techtreechanges/Clip2net_190808152622_2875e4c5fd5c085914f2fafe142d3265.png)
- These vehicles will no longer be available for research after 1.91 and will become collectable machines to everyone that currently owns them. These tanks will not be hidden from anyone who already owns them.
- The gap after Flakpanzer 341 Coelian’s hiding will be filled with the brand-new Ostwind II SPAAG.
- The M48A2 G A2 will get the DM23 shell (same as the Leopard A1A1) and will move to Rank VI with a BR of 8.3.
- The new M48A2 C tank with a 7.7 BR will be added to Rank V.
All these changes will take effect in update 1.91. You have more than two weeks to start researching any vehicle planned for hide from the Panzerwaffe lineup.
In game the Maus is really the natural equivalent of other rare vehicles like the IS-7 and E-100. Large numbers of these machines should never really be present and the role that they play is very limited. In the exact case of the Maus, its exceptionally strong armour can be a menace for lower rank ground vehicles, whilst higher rank machines with more powerful APDS, HEAT or even APFSDS have no trouble overriding the Maus’s one key advantage. The design of the tank sacrifices speed and maneuverability for this overwhelming armament and protection which outclasses almost all WW2 designs, yet becomes rather meaningless when compared to postwar designs. As such, with Update 1.91 the Maus will become a rare event collectable vehicle. Being hidden from standard research and will now only be obtainable in future events and other opportunities later in the future.
Veterans of War Thunder Ground Forces will remember that the Tiger II (10.5 cm Kw.K) was the crown jewel of the German tree during the early stages of development. Added as a counterpart to the IS-4 at the time, this tank is based on a 1944 Krupp proposal to mount the 105mm KwK L/68 cannon on the existing Tiger II design that was rejected and never actually built. Ground forces and the German tree in particular has expanded exponentially since this tank was a necessary requirement for the German lineup and it no longer has a requirement to be within the main tree as a researchable vehicle.
Panther II in War Thunder draws upon many historical Panther projects and developments, such as the Panther II chassis that was built but is also armed the advanced Schmalturm turret design as well as incorporating plans to mount an 8.8cm on a Panther and several other proposals such as engine improvements and IR technology. All of which are historical proposals or actually built, but not on the real Panther II. The version we have in game is not the Panther II as it historically should be. As such, with the advent of the Leopard family as well as the incoming M48A2 C in 1.91, the Panther II will be retired to a collectable vehicle for all who owned it before the update.
The Flakpanzer 341 or “Coelian” as it originally was is a German SPAAG design based on the Panther chassis. Previously it occupied the Rank V spot before switching places with the more advantageous and deadly Kugelblitz in game and has since been the Rank IV German SPAAG. Whilst the vehicle was fully designed and proposed, due to the wartime situation no full prototype or production model was ever created. Only a full scale wooden mockup of the weaponry and turret, mounted on a full metal Panther chassis was ever made of this machine. In 1.91, the Ostwind II will take its position in the research tree and the Flakpanzer 341 will become a collectable vehicle as it was never fully completed project and other late war SPAAGs already offered superior alternatives to this machine.
New vehicles and tree optimization
Besides the above mentioned addition of the Ostwind II to replace the Flakpanzer 341 Coelian, there will also be a few changes to the current vehicle layouts. The German M48A2 C will be placed at BR 7.7, similar to the US M48A1. M48A2 G A2 shifts from the Leopard branch to replace 10.5 cm Tiger II and its rank changes from V to VI by the addition of a more powerful DM23 shell (the same featured on the Leopard A1A1). Its BR changes to 8.3, and makes the later German Patton close to the French AMX-30B2: both lacking a stabilizer, but bringing a very serious shell to their battle rating.
The War Thunder Team
Comments (982)
plz dont remove the maus!!!! Maus is an icon for the german tech tree! it is actually pretty balance for 7.7 br
It will be optainable as event vehicle, i can get behind that.
Howardt, no they shouldn't. because when you look at it. the IS4m will get removed, the M103 will get removed, and the conqeruor. They are legit hiding the problem by adding new tanks!! uncompress the BR's like everyone ask you guys to do, and these tanks will be balance!
#MausLivesMatter
Why are we removing all of these German tanks there are many people have always wanted these tanks and now They don’t have enough time to research them all unless They pay with golden eagles I mean the panther 2 is a good tank, the Maus is well, a meme but loved and the tiger 2 105 has been in the game for forever and now your going to remove it. All of these tanks are icons of Germany and many cherish them and many more want them. I am, not pleased with gaijin doing this. I’m sad to see them go
you answered yourself: they will now pay GEs to rush and get them. In the future, they will be given through events and sold at marketplace. $$$$$$$ KACHING KACHING
4 removed, 2 in replacement, 2 heavy less, nothing to replace them, isn't there a problem? m48a2ga2 get the dm-23 that it cannot shoot but why not (same as leoa1a1), germany looses it's great 6.7 aa for a more 5.0-5.7 stylish one open toped and not much more of a paper tank than the coelian, the kugel stays also in the tree, weird weird weird... at this point just add the coelian with 55mm canons as a counterpart for the zsu-57-2...
So you know nothing else will replace them in patch 1.91?
Fungusar_DK, they would have told us that there was something else but not necessary what it is. Or if there is actually something else, if they don't say what it is, it can be because it need to be kept secret.
This seems ridiculous given how over tiered the German tanks are in general and the plethora of fantasy Russian, American and other allied tanks. if you were to apply the same rationale to the Russian tree half of it would disappear.
Some how you guys managed to upset literally every German tanker in the game. Good job. Just add more premiums and completely forget about finishing the Italian and French trees like you have been.
They really did it, i was on the tier III and wanted to research the maus and verything but this killed the fun for me
The hiding of Maus would be a loss of hope for me, although it might show up at a later event, but I'm not sure I'm eligible for it
probably another youtuber streamer tournament that has like 10000000 semi finals
You'll be eligible if you have $800 to buy one on the market like the E-100, because that's what will happen. Another obvious money grab.
I have been playing since 2013 and have more than once banged my head against the wall but never have i felt this sort of nonsence. Why remove the Maus? It may not be practicle in the normal battles due to its br and other tanks around it, but this is no excuse to straight up remove it from the normal tech tree. I personaly like the maus for it being wanky and absurd but the removal is simply not nessesary since a simple fix of allmost all br´s post 4.0 would be all we need. (ask the community!)
As another 2013 player here, let me tell you one thing: Gaijin will not listen to War Thunder's community. At all. Just how many things we need fixed, how many things need to change and they still chewhoard the content changes we don't even need to discuss right now down our throats.
Wait. MAUS?! WHY?!
Because they know that the people want it and they are going to sell it at a high price
Quiche did you guys consider the Leopard PTA with a 90mm for something around 7.3-7.7?
so basically just the Ru 251?
Littletweeter, Except not premium.